9 comments

  • devrimozcay 3 hours ago
    One thing I'm curious about here is the operational impact.

    In production systems we often see Python services scaling horizontally because of the GIL limitations. If true parallelism becomes common, it might actually reduce the number of containers/services needed for some workloads.

    But that also changes failure patterns — concurrency bugs, race conditions, and deadlocks might become more common in systems that were previously "protected" by the GIL.

    It will be interesting to see whether observability and incident tooling evolves alongside this shift.

    • matsemann 1 hour ago
      For big things the current way works fine. Having a separate container/deployment for celery, the web server, etc is nice so you can deploy and scale separately. Mostly it works fine, but there are of course some drawbacks. Like prometheus scraping of things then not able to run a web server in parallel etc is clunky to work around.

      And for smaller projects it's such an annoyance. Having a simple project running, and having to muck around to get cron jobs, background/async tasks etc. to work in a nice way is one of the reasons I never reach for python in these instances. I hope removing the GIL makes it better, but also afraid it will expose a whole can of worms where lots of apps, tools and frameworks aren't written with this possibility in mind.

    • apothegm 1 hour ago
      A lot of that has already been solved for by scaling workers to cores along with techniques like greenlets/eventlets that support concurrency without true multithreading to take better advantage of CPU capacity.
  • carlsborg 1 hour ago
    Should have funded the entire GIL-removal effort by selling carbon credits. Here's an industry waiting to happen: issue carbon credits for optimizing CPU and GPU resource usage in established libraries.
    • pradeeproark 1 hour ago
      I am taking all the migration of electron apps.
      • GuB-42 49 minutes ago
        I wonder about the total energy cost of apps like Teams, Slack, Discord, etc... Hundreds of millions of users, an app running constantly in the background. I wouldn't be surprised if the global power consumption on the clients side reached the gigawatt. Add the increased wear on the components, the cost of hardware upgrades, etc...

        All that to avoid hiring a few developers to make optimized native clients on the most popular platforms. Popular apps and websites should lose or get carbon credits on optimization. What is negligible for a small project becomes important when millions of users get involved, and especially background apps.

        • dr_zoidberg 27 minutes ago
          If we go by Microsofts 2020 account of 1 billion devices running Windows 10 [0], and assume all those are running some kind of electron app (or multiple?) you easily get your gigawatt by just saving 1 watt across each device (on average). I suspect you'd probably go higher than 1 gigawatt, but I'm not sure as far as making another order of magnitude. I also think the noisy fan on my notebook begs to differ and maybe the 10 GW mark could be doable...

          [0] https://news.microsoft.com/apac/2020/03/17/windows-10-poweri...

  • Tiberium 33 minutes ago
    I have a suspicion that this paper is basically a summary with some benchmarks, done with LLMs.
    • dr_zoidberg 19 minutes ago
      Your suspicion could have easily been cleared by reading the paper.

      If you're short on time: the paper reads a bit dry, but falls in the norm for academic writing. The github repo shows work over months on 2024 (leading up to the release of 3.13) and some rush on Dec 2025 to Jan 2026, probably to wrap things up on the release of this paper. All commits on the repo are from the author, but I didn't look through the code to inspect if there was some Copilot intervention.

      [0] https://github.com/Joseda8/profiler

  • chillitom 2 hours ago
    Our experience on memory usage, in comparison, has been generally positive.

    Previously we had to use ProcessPoolExecutor which meant maintaining multiple copies of the runtime and shared data in memory and paying high IPC costs, being able to switch to ThreadPoolExecutor was hugely beneficially in terms of speed and memory.

    It almost feels like programming in a modern (circa 1996) environment like Java.

    • hrmtst93837 2 hours ago
      Swapping ProcessPoolExecutor for ThreadPoolExecutor gives real memory and IPC wins, but it trades process isolation for new failure modes because many C extensions and native libraries still assume the GIL and are not thread safe.

      Measure aggressively and test under real concurrency: use tracemalloc to find memory hotspots, py-spy or perf to profile contention, and fuzz C extension paths with stress tests so bugs surface in the lab not in production. Watch per thread stack overhead and GC behavior, design shared state as immutable or sharded, keep critical sections tiny, and if process level isolation is still required stick with ProcessPoolExecutor or expose large datasets via read only mmap.

      • nijave 1 hour ago
        I thought libraries had to explicitly opt in to no GIL via a macro or constant or something in C
        • zozbot234 20 minutes ago
          GP is a clanker spouting off a lot of random nonsense.
  • philipallstar 4 hours ago
    Might be worth noting that this seems to be just running some tests using the current implementation, and these are not necessarily general implications of removing the GIL.
    • samus 3 hours ago
      There might also be many optimization opportunities that still have to be seized.
  • flowerthoughts 3 hours ago
    Sections 5.4 and 5.5 are the interesting ones.

    5.4: Energy consumption going down because of parallelism over multiple cores seems odd. What were those cores doing before? Better utilization causing some spinlocks to be used less or something?

    5.5: Fine-grained lock contention significantly hurts energy consumption.

    • alright2565 3 hours ago
      I'm not sure of the exact relationship, but power consumption increases greater than linear with clock speed. If you have 4 cores running at the same time, there's more likely to be thermal throttling → lower clock speeds → lower energy consumption.

      Greater power draw though; remember that energy is the integral of power over time.

      • spockz 3 hours ago
        By running more tasks in parallel across different cores they can each run at lower clock speed and potentially still finish before a single core at higher clock speeds can execute them sequentially.
  • runningmike 3 days ago
    Title shortened - Original title:

    Unlocking Python’s Cores: Hardware Usage and Energy Implications of Removing the GIL

    I am curious about the NumPy workload choice made, due to more limited impact on CPython performance.

  • pothamk 3 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • OskarS 3 hours ago
      Thanks ChatGPT, good of you to let us know.
      • stingraycharles 3 hours ago
        There are so many ChatGPT responses in this thread, it’s giving me a headache.
        • OskarS 2 hours ago
          Yep. Real "dead internet theory" vibes, really sad to see.
          • stingraycharles 2 hours ago
            It’s been very noticeable for about a year now, but the last few months is absolutely terrible. I wonder if clawdbot has anything to do with it.
          • exe34 2 hours ago
            my hypothesis is that chatgpt was trained on the internet, and useful technical answers on the internet were posted by autistic people. who else would spend their time learning and then rushing to answer such things the moment they get their chance to shine? so chatgpt is basically pure distilled autism, which is why it sounds so familiar.
      • Incipient 2 hours ago
        I'm curious what makes that obviously llm? As far as I can tell it was a short and fairly benign statement with little scope to give away llm-ness?
        • mrkeen 2 hours ago
          Just as bad if it's human. No information has been shared. The writer has turned idle wondering into prose:

          > Once threads actually run concurrently, libraries (which?) that never needed locking (contradiction?) could (will they or won't they?) start hitting race conditions in surprising (go on, surprise me) places.

    • RobotToaster 3 hours ago
      The obvious solution is to require libraries that are no-GIL safe to declare that, and for all other libraries implicitly wrap them with GIL locks.
  • bob1029 1 hour ago
    > Across all workloads, energy consumption is proportional to execution time

    Race-to-idle used to be the best path before multicore. Now it's trickier to determine how to clock the device. Especially in battery powered cases. This is why all modern CPU manufacturers are looking into heterogeneous compute (efficiency vs performance cores).

    Put differently, I don't think we should be killing ourselves over this at software time. If you are actually concerned about the impact on raw energy consumption, you should move your workloads from AMD/Intel to ARM/Apple. Everything else would be noise compared to this.

    • adgjlsfhk1 28 minutes ago
      this is a very silly take. cpu isa is at most a 2x difference, and software has plenty of 100x differences. most of the difference between Windows and macos isn't the chips, OS and driver bloat is a much bigger factor