I think it's more of the fact that they were conceived which will bother most.
A sperm on its own was never going to be a person. A egg on its own was never going to be a person.
A embryo... we cause the sparks to fly here and it's disturbing to think we can poke at the genes when we really have no idea what we are doing. Was a soul created here? Lot of people think yes. So lots of people naturally care about that taking place. Just to poke and prod 1 of billions of base pairs to see what happens does not seem like a good idea or..even a practical way to learn anything.
I would bargain there are a lot more pairs you could mess with that would have the same effect and would prevent the embryo from developing further.
I lean that we most likely are creating souls (however that works...) the moment of conception and we probably should be fooling around with doing this stuff. This article reminded me of this video I saw 10 years ago that shows there is a moment in time where sparks literally fly and it's pretty amazing to see.
Embryos have to reset after conception to delete all of the faulty dna inherited from the parents. Babies don’t get born with wrinkles for example. They start clean slate without (most) epigenetic damage that both sperm and egg had.
So the embryo a 10 days after conception is not the same thing as at conception. Did God kill it?
Does anyone know why such a fundamental gene would have such different behaviours between mammals?
> In previous mouse studies, loss of NANOG disrupted both the epiblast and the yolk sac - a tissue that supports the developing embryo. In this human embryo study, loss of NANOG primarily affected the epiblast, the future body-forming line of cells.
The short answer is the "14-day" rule, which doesn't allow development of the embryo beyond 14 days. The article gives specifics under the heading "Ethical and legal compliance"
In the US it's legal-sorta but the NIH can't fund it and the FDA is not allowed to approve treatments based on it. So someone could do it in a research setting but there's not a pathway to market in the US (in practice people will do the first ones in a friendly legal climate like Peru).
Testing on early stage embryos is a thing yes. They have no brain, no heartbeat, feel no pain. Yes, they could potentially develop into a human being, but I wouldn't call it a live human yet. I understand your repulsion, but to other people it's no different than testing on sperm, eggs or other human tissues. And as the other guy said, these were discarded embryos from IVF, they would never become humans.
Human is a fact of DNA — of which embryos are unmistakably humans. But we don’t ascribe rights based on humanity, but on personhood, which is why embryos have virtually none.
You come across as dishonest and put people off from your perspective when you won’t admit basic facts — eg, this is experimenting on humans.
I think perhaps your aversion to basic facts is that you don’t feel comfortable being honest:
Of course I support experimenting on living humans. That's how medical research is done for everything. Eventually no matter how sure you are someone has to be the first.
A quick search suggests that we tried it a bunch on animals, failed on humans, and of the first three human transplants, you had an adult (20s), toddler (2yr), and adult (50s). All of them were due to medical necessity, as it was a high risk procedure.
Is there something you imagine the poster would be shocked by in that history?
Even in real pregnancies, it's estimated that as many as three quarters of all fertilized eggs fail to implant in the uterus. If one was of the opinion that life begins at conception, one should certainly be aware of that silent holocaust that has and always will eclipse all others for all of human existence.
Don't worry, the Fundies are already working on punishing women for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies. I'm sure implantation failure is on the list...
A sperm on its own was never going to be a person. A egg on its own was never going to be a person.
A embryo... we cause the sparks to fly here and it's disturbing to think we can poke at the genes when we really have no idea what we are doing. Was a soul created here? Lot of people think yes. So lots of people naturally care about that taking place. Just to poke and prod 1 of billions of base pairs to see what happens does not seem like a good idea or..even a practical way to learn anything.
I would bargain there are a lot more pairs you could mess with that would have the same effect and would prevent the embryo from developing further.
I lean that we most likely are creating souls (however that works...) the moment of conception and we probably should be fooling around with doing this stuff. This article reminded me of this video I saw 10 years ago that shows there is a moment in time where sparks literally fly and it's pretty amazing to see.
https://vimeo.com/163864531
So the embryo a 10 days after conception is not the same thing as at conception. Did God kill it?
> In previous mouse studies, loss of NANOG disrupted both the epiblast and the yolk sac - a tissue that supports the developing embryo. In this human embryo study, loss of NANOG primarily affected the epiblast, the future body-forming line of cells.
What references are you following? Haven't heard this before.
Unless you live in the Whitehouse.
Human is a fact of DNA — of which embryos are unmistakably humans. But we don’t ascribe rights based on humanity, but on personhood, which is why embryos have virtually none.
You come across as dishonest and put people off from your perspective when you won’t admit basic facts — eg, this is experimenting on humans.
I think perhaps your aversion to basic facts is that you don’t feel comfortable being honest:
You support experimenting on living humans.
A quick search suggests that we tried it a bunch on animals, failed on humans, and of the first three human transplants, you had an adult (20s), toddler (2yr), and adult (50s). All of them were due to medical necessity, as it was a high risk procedure.
Is there something you imagine the poster would be shocked by in that history?