The shingles vaccine may reduce the risk of dementia

(economist.com)

170 points | by saikatsg 5 hours ago

24 comments

  • tsoukase 28 minutes ago
    Dementia might have dozens of risk factors, each adding up a little. Physical and emotional stress, insomnia, head microinjuries, arteriovascular risk factors, infections and there lies herpes zoster. Only the latter has a causal treatment and is only single stone on the wall of disease.
  • robot_jesus 4 hours ago
    I'm in my 40s with genetic predisposition for Alzheimer's. Been seriously considering the past year or two paying out of pocket for Shingrix. I think it would be ~$500 total for two doses.

    Sure, I could wait 7 or 8 years until I qualify via insurance, but is that really worth the risk for what is an easily absorbed cost to me? Especially when I have a friend in her late 30s who just went through a very rough bout of shingles?

    It makes sense to have targets like age 50 for population-wide public health recommendations. But it can and does infect people of much earlier ages.

    Recent articles like this make me think I'll go ahead.

    • reenorap 1 hour ago
      This finding of shingles and dementia is likely due to “healthy vaccinee” bias as per the link someone else posted below:

      https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0?is=XJ0c5pWVV6Lg0IMs

      As per one of the slides around 7 minutes in, there are many vaccines that show a 20-40% reduction in mortality and dementia.

      The talk above basically says that “observational studies” may show great results, like the so-called protective action of the shingles vaccine against dementia. However when brought to a well designed RCT all those benefits don’t actually show up. And the speaker shows later on that the shingles vaccines shows a marked benefit for shingles but nothing for dementia.

    • js2 2 hours ago
      On the topic of vaccines, if you were vaccinated against measles before it switched to the two-dose schedule (1989 in the US), you might want to have your titers measured.

      I was vaccinated in the early 70s when it was a single dose. With measles in the news recently, I asked my doc to add a measles antibodies test to my blood draw. Came back negative. No immunity. I went to the local pharmacy and got an MMR booster the next day.

      https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/some-...

      • daft_pink 16 minutes ago
        If you were vaccinated on the normal schedule, what year would you generally be born to be vaccinated with the single dose?
    • scrollop 2 hours ago
      There were a few studies around 2022 showing the influenza vaccines and pneumoccocal vaccines reduce alzheimers (influenza by up to a whopping 40%!).

      I tell me patients this to increase uptake, so we can reduce alzheimer's prevalence.

      (I'm a doctor)

    • andy99 4 hours ago
      I read before that iirc because of waning protection it’s better not to get it too early. It’s not clear to me why you can’t get it twice, but what I read (and it was some online discussion so could be wrong) was that someone had been specifically told by their doctor to wait to 50 as the best spot to get it. I’d like to know more, I’m in my 40s and would be happy to get it now too but not if it was going to be worse overall for some reason.
      • goosejuice 1 hour ago
        Hmm but as I understand it, dementia begins in your 30s. It's just that we don't see the signs of it until much later. So if it is protective, waiting doesn't seem wise (on the dementia side of it).
      • jghn 1 hour ago
        My primary care suggested I hold off to mid-late 50s instead of right at 50 for this reason. Between not wanting shingles, and some of the newer research into neuroprotective angles I'm not sure I'm going to do this however.
      • anonym29 4 hours ago
        The antibodies you develop to fight the virus fade over time. I just had it fairly recently (young 30s, vaccinated with the attenuated chickenpox virus, never had chickenpox, so this was likely the vaccine strain¹). Did a lot of reading and research during and after. The antibodies seem to offer good protection for 5-10 years following either vaccination or infection according to the literature I was reading.

        ¹ The vaccine strain tends to be much more mild than the wild strain, and indeed it was quite unpleasant, but not extremely painful for me. The wild strain is considerably more painful and linked to a greater incidence rate of complications. Please do not skip chickenpox vaccinations for your kids, the minor risk of latent infection from attenuated vaccine is far less harmful than the consequences of not vaccinating. Most important of all, if you have a cluster of blisters or rash on one side of your body that keep popping up, make sure to see a doctor and get on antivirals within the first 72 hours for best results.

        • jimbob45 2 hours ago
          You had Shingles after never having chicken pox except the vaccine?
          • anonym29 54 minutes ago
            Yes. In my case, the virus became active after severe and chronic sleep deprivation one summer where I tried experimenting with going from a 16/8 sleep schedule to a 24/12 sleep schedule, on a now-resoundingly-disproven hypothesis that the ratio of waking hours to sleeping hours was more important than the absolute number of each for healthy functioning.

            Stress and sleep deprivation are known triggers for the virus, which lies dormant in the nervous system for life after initial infection, and can be dormant for decades at a time between reactivations.

      • AnotherGoodName 1 hour ago
        But surely you can do a booster shot?
        • giardini 2 minutes ago
          I've had two shingles shots: Zostavax and Shingrix. There's no reason you couldn't take either shot again. You might have to pay but no big deal.

          I know people who've had shingles and it is not only a major PITA but can be life-threatening, can blind you, etc., just bad stuff. Don't delay taking advised precautions, including injections.

        • tptacek 1 hour ago
          So far as I know there's no standard booster protocol for Shingrix.
          • golem14 1 hour ago
            That just tells you it hasn’t been fully researched, not that it wouldn’t be useful.
          • unsupp0rted 56 minutes ago
            You could just get one more dose, right?
      • raverbashing 47 minutes ago
        Yeah

        And you can absolutely get Shingles before 50 (in some cases)

    • tptacek 4 hours ago
      Wait, you can just pay for the shingles vaccine, before you're 50? Where do I do that?

      I had shingles in my 30s. It was the sickest I've ever been.

      • Aurornis 3 hours ago
        You can get basically any medication or vaccination you want in the US as long as you can find a doctor to write the prescription.

        We even have anabolic steroids that were approved for muscle wasting in cancer patients, but if you can find a doctor willing to write the prescription and a pharmacy that won’t question it, anyone can have pharmacy grade Anavar for the gym, completely legal. In theory the doctor writing the prescription is putting their license at risk, but enforcement is so lax that there are “anti-aging” clinics all over that will prescribe testosterone and Anavar to anyone with a credit card.

        So with a documented history of shingles you should have no problem getting a prescription written. It would be worth a quick check with your insurance company because it might even be covered if your doctor will fill out the form and attach evidence of the past diagnosis.

        • dataflow 1 hour ago
          > You can get basically any medication or vaccination you want in the US as long as you can find a doctor to write the prescription.

          Is that not usually true in other countries?

          • jandrewrogers 38 minutes ago
            There is a large industry in the US that specializes in catering to people that want medications, vaccines, diagnostics, and treatments that are outside the recommended standard of care that medical insurance or public health systems cover. You have to pay for these services directly but the market is competitive so the cost is quite reasonable.

            A doctor must sign off on these but that step is mostly performative outside of some narrow exceptions. My impression is that this type of medical care is much more accessible in the US than most other developed countries.

      • bink 2 hours ago
        Not exactly. My doctor wanted to start me on a medicine that would make me more likely to develop shingles so he asked me to get the vaccine series before he'd prescribe the medicine. I guess there's no such thing as a prescription for a vaccine, so I just went to my local pharmacy. I made the mistake of writing on the form that I had no health issues. The pharmacist came out and said because I wasn't 50 and had no health issues they weren't allowed to administer the vaccine. Even after I explained my condition and the doctor's request they still refused. They wouldn't even let me fill out a new form. I had to go to a different pharmacy which conveniently didn't ask about my current health status.

        It's stupid too, because the question I answered "wrong" wasn't clear. It basically sounded like they were asking me if I currently had a cold or covid.

      • kaikai 2 hours ago
        You can just ask for vaccines at the pharmacy. I got a potentially missed childhood vaccination as an adult and they asked a few questions about why I wanted it, but were happy to give it to me. If it’s something odd you might need to go to a travel clinic.
      • jakestein 1 hour ago
        I'm in my 40s and asked my GP for it since I similar had a bad experience with it a few years ago. After warning me 3 times that it might not get covered by insurance, they gave it to me. I tried to get the second dose at a pharmacy, and they would not do it since I'm under 50. I got the second dose at my GP again a few months later.
      • SoftTalker 2 hours ago
        If you just want to pay out of pocket or with an HSA, etc. you can get many vaccines at a pharmacy. Might need to check if there are limited hours for that service or appointments needed. Not sure if Shingrix is one of them.
        • tptacek 2 hours ago
          I've tried to get the shingles vaccine at Walgreens before and been turned down because I wasn't old enough.
          • SoftTalker 2 hours ago
            Huh. Well maybe not then. Did you make it clear you'd pay out of pocket and not insurance?
            • tptacek 2 hours ago
              Yes. I really want this vaccine.
              • sarchertech 2 hours ago
                Have you tried asking your PCP?
                • tptacek 2 hours ago
                  I'm pretty confident I could talk my PCP into it! I'm just wondering if there is some easier retail way to do it.
                  • alamortsubite 18 minutes ago
                    If you DM your provider through their health portal it's likely they'll write an order without requiring an office visit.
      • Jolter 2 hours ago
        If you have already had shingles as an adult, aren’t you fairly well protected for the next ten years or so, at least? I’d wager that you are one of the people least at risk since your immune system is already primed and readying suppress the virus that’s latently infecting you.
        • tptacek 2 hours ago
          You are more likely to have a recurrence of shingles after once having it before. At any rate, I had mine more than 10 years ago.
    • zeckalpha 1 hour ago
      My understanding is that they're not sure if the vaccine will last in your system for more than 30 years, and that subsequent doses may be less effective, so getting it early may weaken you later.

      But I am with you. My personal bet is we'll know more about this by the time that becomes an issue.

      The earliest cohorts of vaccinated children are approaching their 30s, so we should learn about long term efficacy this decade.

      • robot_jesus 59 minutes ago
        It's a fair callout, but for me (and increased propensity for Alzheimer's) the calculus is a bit different. Making to to my mid-70s with full mental faculties would easily be worth the tradeoff of an increasing likelihood of shingles at that point. And besides, I would presume I would be able take the vaccine again?
      • dualvariable 1 hour ago
        > they're not sure if the vaccine will last in your system for more than 30 years

        Vaccines don't really last in your system more than a few days (although some cells get dragged off to the lymph nodes and get harshly interrogated for longer than that). It is the T-cell and B-cell responses that are persistent for years.

        > and that subsequent doses may be less effective

        They should activate B cells that you already have and produce high-affinity mature antibodies.

    • mlyle 4 hours ago
      I got shingles at 45 and it was -not fun-. My arm is slightly disfigured.

      I think the age 50 target is dated. With reduced childhood incidence of chicken pox, we're all exposed to varicella zoster less, and it seems like the ages of incidence of shingles is falling. Public health recommendations are slow to catch up with research (especially for vaccinations, these days).

      • iambenm 3 hours ago
        I got it around 36, and coincidentally a friend 5-6 years younger than me in a different part of the country got it at the same time.

        My research at the time led me to the same conclusion: Since we've basically eradicated chickenpox, we're not exposed to the varicella zoster virus as much as previous generations (via children that have chickenpox). Without exposure our antibodies / resistance fade out.

        Since we had chickenpox, the virus is already in us and dormant. When it wakes up and decides to do its thing, our bodies have forgotten how to fight it effectively compared to previous generations - and as a result, the incidence of shingles is increasing in younger populations compared to previous generations.

        My doctor said vaccination for under 50 is only indicated after multiple occurrences of shingles... so here's to hoping I'm good til the guidelines change.

      • zahlman 3 hours ago
        > Japan was among the first countries to vaccinate for chickenpox. The vaccine developed by Hilleman was first licensed in the United States in 1995.[17][60]

        People (well, Americans and Canadians at least) in their 40s now generally didn't get vaccinated as children, as their parents didn't have the option. It will be different for the next generation.

      • jyounker 3 hours ago
        Yeah, I came here to say the same thing. I got it around 46. The horrible looking stuff on the outside is also on the inside, and it weakens your internal tissues. I know this because I tore one of the muscles in my lower back, and it still causes problems.
    • anarticle 1 hour ago
      I feel like we've probably spent more for less! Any interaction with the medical industry for less than 1k feels like a steal to me.
    • copperx 4 hours ago
      Shingles terrifies me because it can cause hearing loss. I spoke to my GP and he wouldn't give me a script for it even though I'm 3 years away from qualifying. He mentioned side effects.
      • dr_kiszonka 1 hour ago
        "An increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome (severe muscle weakness) was observed after vaccination with SHINGRIX"

        https://www.shingrix.com/side-effects/

      • jyounker 3 hours ago
        That seems like being penny wise and pound foolish.
        • subscribed 2 hours ago
          Looks like the GP is in the UK.

          I tried to go private (also not 50), but everyone just refused. Pharmacy, GP, private GP.

          Currently I'm arranging it in the third country because WTAF.

          (UK becoming the dirtiest and sickest country of Europe one more time)

          • Integer 14 minutes ago
            Weird, I went to a travel vaccination clinic in London and got it no questions asked (the nurse was even familiar with the dementia research). Try calling privatemedicalclinic.com ?
          • copperx 54 minutes ago
            Close, I'm in the US. I don't need a script to get it, only if I want the insurance to pay for it.

            But if I couldn't I could still go to Mexico and buy brand name Shingrix.

          • pasc1878 1 hour ago
            The age for shingles vaccine in the UK under the NHS (so free) is 65.

            Of course I got shingles when I was 64. Caught early and got anti-virals and had no lasting effects.

          • monkey_monkey 1 hour ago
            > (UK becoming the dirtiest and sickest country of Europe one more time)

            Big Yawn

        • tptacek 3 hours ago
          I think the bigger thing is that the vaccine has a peak response window, and the current medical guidance lines that up with when you're epidemiologically most likely to experience a shingles outbreak (for most people, that's very unlikely when you're young, because your immune system is so jumpy, but that wanes with age). If you get the vaccine early, its effect can be attenuated right when you need it most.

          (I don't like this logic and if I had the option of just going to Walgreens and getting vaccinated, I'd do that this afternoon. I'm just saying, there's a logic to it.)

      • bitwize 2 hours ago
        My A1C popped high, so I could get Shingrix 2 years before the nominal minimum age, paid for by insurance, on the technicality of having a T2D diagnosis. My blood sugar is much more under control now, but that's a nice little side benefit I won't hesitate to take advantage of. The most severe side effect for me was long term muscle pain near the injection site (even now 10 months after I got the shot). But it's totally worth it because the pain of shingles is far, far worse as I understand it.
    • cyanydeez 4 hours ago
      aside from age ranges being the tested population, your just gambling no other interference pattern is involved.
  • modeless 1 hour ago
    Unfortunately this is a spurious finding. See this presentation: https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0

    The mechanism is that people with the shingles vaccine are less likely to visit the hospital (because they don't get shingles). Because they have fewer hospital visits they are less likely to receive an incidental diagnosis of dementia from a hospital.

    • dlcarrier 6 minutes ago
      There's also this whole thing: https://xkcd.com/882/

      There's countless treatments and countless diseases. It is very much worth combing data to find treatments with potential off-label uses, but with that many combinations of treatments and diseases, much more care needs to go into eliminating not just non-causative correlations, but straight-up random correlations that have a very small probability of happening on their own, but are likely to happen in a large enough group of comparisons.

    • teravor 35 minutes ago
      are there that many instances of mild dementia where a lack of diagnosis remains a lack?
  • hereme888 4 hours ago
    Replicated association, which is strong, but not proof. Initial study saw a 3.5% absolute reduction in dementia diagnoses over seven years with a very wide confidence interval. In Australia the study was replicated with 1.8% absolute reduction over 7.4 yrs. Canadian replication: 2% over 5.5 yrs.

    Infections generally increase the risk of future dementia. Like the more colds you have throughout life.

    • gruez 4 hours ago
      >Replicated association [...]

      "association" undersells it a bit, because the data is better than the typical cohort study, which has issues like "what if people who got the vaccine are also richer and care about their health more?". There's quasi-randomization going on. From the more in depth article that's linked:

      >Research is also revealing unexpected interventions that help to keep ageing minds sharp. One of the most promising derives from an analysis by Pascal Geldsetzer of Stanford University and his team of a natural experiment in Wales. In 2013 the British region started offering people aged 70-79 free vaccinations through the public-health system. This change resembled an RCT, in that a large number of people were separated almost at random into two groups: those who had already turned 80 in the weeks before the programme started, and so were not eligible to be jabbed; and those who turned 80 in the weeks after, roughly half of whom were duly vaccinated.

    • hobo123 2 hours ago
      I wonder if infections do not cause more dementia, but are simply correlated with more. A weaker immune system may trigger many many things.

      And similar questions about obesity "causing" many diseases, sunburns causing skin cancer (although that sounds somewhat plausible) etc.

      • tptacek 2 hours ago
        There isn't a causal mechanistic link between shingles and Alzheimers. We don't know why the Shingrix vaccine reduces incidence of Alzheimers.

        (You should very much want to avoid any chance of getting shingles, though; it's a nightmare.)

      • hereme888 2 hours ago
        The shingles virus hides in the nervous system and can come back out when immune control weakens. It causes inflammation and nerve injury, sometimes severe enough to leave people with chronic pain. From there, it’s reasonable to theorize that it could also affect the brain and even its glymphatic system over time.
    • SoftTalker 2 hours ago
      I'm one of those people (knock on wood) who never gets sick. I never get colds or seasonal flu, and I don't get routine flu vaccines. Never got COVID either, even when several people in the house had it (I did get the J&J vaccine for that, however).

      I did have chicken pox as a kid, but have not had shingles nor the vaccine (yet). A co-worker was laid up for a week after his shingles vaccine, but that's obviously just one data point.

      But, I've been considering getting the Shingrix series even if I have to pay for it. I turn 60 this year. Shingles doesn't sound fun.

      • laluser 1 hour ago
        Just curious, do you have children? Do you socialize pretty freely during all seasons indoors?
    • alfiedotwtf 3 hours ago
      > like the more colds you have in life

      Whoa wait what? This is the first time I’ve heard of this - is this actually common knowledge?

      • hereme888 2 hours ago
        Not common knowledge, but should be in this day and age. For example, someone who worked in daycare and often got sick with the flu or similar, has a higher risk of dementia (statistically-speaking).

        When I learned it, it was in the context of the influenza and similar common viruses.

        It's actually more nuanced than that. If you want to read more: https://www.openevidence.com/ask/bccc3cc2-e15d-4fb0-a0c5-16f...

        • sarchertech 2 hours ago
          As far as I know you're overstating what is known.

          There was a study that showed that people who had severe influenza (they were hospitalized) were 3 times more likely to develop dementia. And there are mouse models that show that frequency respiratory virus infections can increase may contribute to brain aging (in mice).

          >someone who worked in daycare and often got sick with the flu or similar, has a higher risk of dementia (statistically-speaking).

          I can't find any evidence of this being true. I can find evidence that primary school teachers have lower rates of dementia. Pediatricians also have lower rates of dementia, so I find this highly doubtful.

  • pstuart 10 minutes ago
    I got shingles in my early 50s and did not know there were antivirals that could help mitigate its effects. I now have postherpetic neuralgia and the pain is not quite enough to off myself but the fact that I have to live with this for the rest of my life weighs me down.

    It turns out that "pain management" is more art than science and almost all the pharma options out there come with significant risks and concerns. I ended up turning to kratom to manage the pain, which it does, but it's come at significant cost as well (addiction being one of them). I'm now going to try peptides (ARA-290 and BPC-157) to see if maybe that can help but it's all a crap shoot.

    I share this as a warning/advice: get the vaccine if you can, even if insurance resists, push back. It may be worth it out of pocket IMHO. If you can't, remember to get access to antivirals immediately if you can.

    • jeffbee 4 minutes ago
      The antiviral treatments for shingles are not very practical in that by the time you decide to visit the doctor it may already be too late for them to work.
  • jonatron 2 hours ago
    I got shingles after the covid vaccine, which is a rare but statistically highly significant risk: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35470920/ . Both covid and shingles sucked, luckily it was years ago now.
  • what_hn 2 hours ago
    Is it also possible they're finding healthier people that are proactive in their treatment, maybe even exercise more, work longer, etc...
    • modeless 1 hour ago
      Good guess. The actual mechanism is that people who don't get the vaccination are more likely to need to visit the hospital to treat their shingles, and because they visit the hospital more they have more chances to get a diagnosis of dementia in a hospital. See this presentation: https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0

      The lesson is to be extremely suspicious of findings of causation based on observational studies.

  • antaviana 3 hours ago
    So if you had shingles in your youth then you are better protected against dementia?
    • tptacek 3 hours ago
      No, the opposite. If you've had shingles before, you're more likely to get it again later, not less.
    • dymk 3 hours ago
      The article says that one possible reason the vaccine protects against dementia is incidental protection from other diseases. Getting chickenpox as a kid might protect you against shingles, but maybe not against those other diseases.
      • tptacek 3 hours ago
        No! The opposite thing is true. Getting chickenpox as a kid drastically increases your likelihood of getting shingles as an adult. The initial chickenpox infection is the mechanism by which you're set up for shingles: you get it, fight it back, and it remains dormant in your nerves. Shingles is not simply chickenpox; it's the secondary infection you get from a resurgent zoster outbreak based in your nerves.

        Don't get chickenpox.

        • Jolter 2 hours ago
          Well, now… I can tell you second hand that catching chicken pox as an adult is no picnic either.
          • tptacek 2 hours ago
            No it is not. Ranked list of outcomes:

            1. Not getting chickenpox at all. Highly desirable.

            2. Getting chickenpox as a kid.

            3. Getting chickenpox as an adult.

      • bitwize 2 hours ago
        Getting chicken pox as a kid means you already have the H. zoster virus in your system, and when you get older as your immune system weakens, it may come out for a second go around, manifesting as shingles. Having had chicken pox as a kid is one of the reasons why I got my Shingrix as soon as I was able.
    • therein 3 hours ago
      Not really, shingles is a lifetime infection. You'd be more likely.
  • ChrisMarshallNY 2 hours ago
    I had the vaccine, last year (but I’m 64).

    Hoowee, it made me sick, but only for a day (twice, as you get a booster, six months later).

    Had chickenpox (and measles, at the same time), when I was a kid. That was fun.

    My mother used to get recurring bouts of the shingles. Definitely not fun.

  • mullingitover 1 hour ago
    > Another is that the vaccination gives the immune system a firm kick up its B-cells, activating it against other bugs that might contribute to dementia.

    It's weird that they kinda gloss over the very real and open questions here, because the idea that the AS01 adjuvant is involved in the dementia protection is very much alive and an ongoing topic. A paper from last year[1] looked into it and found that the Shingrix shingles vaccine and the RSV vaccine are about the same in their risk reduction for dementia (with a bunch of caveats).

    I believe the current evidence point to the shingles vaccine helping, but also a protective effect happening from the AS01 adjuvant on its own.

    I'm not a researcher but my layman's take is that the Economist whiffed it here, and there's a more interesting and complicated story to be told beyond this clickbait-adjacent science journalism.

    [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12198376/

  • khriss 3 hours ago
    Recently, even the TDAP (Tetanus) vaccine was correlated with lower incidence of dementia https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26919881

    I recall seeing a few discussions on HN comments hypothesizing that immune system stimulation via the vaccine might be the root cause. Now that the Amyloid hypothesis is on the wane, hopefully we'll explore other paths.

    • zahlman 3 hours ago
      > the Amyloid hypothesis is on the wane

      Oh? What did I miss?

      • Terr_ 3 hours ago
        I think the short version is that people have developed a lot of things to substantially reduce the levels in human brains, but in practice is doesn't seem to be yielding clearly-good results.
      • khriss 3 hours ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32183302

        TL;DR A lot of evidence supporting the Amyloid hypothesis is suspect.

  • WarOnPrivacy 2 hours ago
    PSA: For us uninsured, the shingles vaccine costs ~$500 out of pocket (>$250 x2).

    I want folks to get it but - I feel "Just Get It" admonitions carry a vibe that the cost is negligible.

  • syntaxing 4 hours ago
    I know quite a few people who got shingles in their early 20s. One of their doctors didn’t believe she had shingles until the blisters formed. The vaccine can definitely help those younger than 50, dementia benefits or not. Some of them have permanent nerve damage after getting shingles.
    • jliptzin 2 hours ago
      My brother had it when he was 17
  • panny 42 minutes ago
    HORSE PASTE!!! NO!!! NO MEDICINE HAS TWO USES!!! HORSE PASTE!!!

    Did I do it right?

    https://c19early.org/i

  • cubefox 2 hours ago
    > Most of the evidence of its anti-dementia effect relates to an earlier version of the vaccine, which used a weakened form of the live virus. It has since been largely replaced by a new one, Shingrix, which contains just a sprinkling of proteins from the virus and is seen as safer because it cannot cause an infection.

    Unfortunately the apparent anti-dementia effect of this old vaccine (Zostavax) recently turned out to be a statistical illusion: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qlTnnQytOJ0

    It is not clear whether the effect from Shingrix (the new one) is real or not. We currently don't have a case-control study which could prove causation.

  • erelong 1 hour ago
    ...and there may be damaging side effects

    while there are probably lots of accessible "natural" demetia remedies

    that you can do without having to resort to experimental drugs that may cause more problems and cost more

    • kurthr 1 hour ago
      But what if those unstudied accessible "natural" remedies have even more problems? Should we choose to do nothing, only study nothing, or just redefine what "natural" is?
  • robot_jesus 4 hours ago
    • sowbug 4 hours ago
      Shingles vaccine, if you don't feel like clicking through.
      • dang 2 hours ago
        Thanks! We've put shingles into the title above.
      • blooalien 4 hours ago
        Thank you.
  • Simpledempkin 14 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • satya71 4 hours ago
    TL;DR Shingles vaccines reduces chances of dementia by 20%. Yet, most countries health systems only look at the upfront cost of ~$300 and don’t recommend for all who could benefit.
    • MASNeo 4 hours ago
      In a separate article the other factors are quoted with similar impact (listed in order of max potential magnitude) - anti depression treatment - education increases - hearing improvement - obesity reduction - low alcohol

      The earlier you start the better.

      • gruez 4 hours ago
        >anti depression treatment - regular exercise - obesity reduction - education - less/no alcohol

        Injecting people with a shingles vaccine is far easier than the others you listed, which is why it stands out.

      • rsyring 3 hours ago
        Can you share the article you reference?
      • WalterGR 3 hours ago
        > hearing improvement

        This means addressing hearing loss, e.g. via hearing aids.

    • hatsunearu 4 hours ago
      Should I get the shingles vaccine at a young age? I've had chickenpox earlier in my life.
      • jyounker 3 hours ago
        As someone who got shingles at about 46, yes.
    • ferongr 2 hours ago
      Dementia largely affects people on a pension, and not working adults contributing to the pyramid scheme.
      • xelaboi 1 hour ago
        This would be a good conspiracy theory if dementia was a short illness.
    • tptacek 3 hours ago
      That may be the case in other countries, but in the US we're generally fee-for-service, so the incentives are reversed, and we still don't give it until you're 50 (which, as someone who has had it and is under 50, annoys me to no end).
    • SoftTalker 4 hours ago
      20% of what?
  • mecdu92 4 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • mecdu92 4 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • zyralab 4 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • swed420 4 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • OutOfHere 4 hours ago
      I wear a P95, not for Covid, but because I simply don't like getting sick even with a cold. Also, it blocks pollution which is independently important for the brain.
    • timcobb 4 hours ago
      most people can't really get a worthwhile quality of life like that. maybe life is worthwhile to you walking around in an N95 respirator, but not to me, at least not... indefinitely. I'd rather be dead TBH. IMO it makes sense to wait to die to be dead. Why be dead while you're still technically alive? What are you trying to optimize for? Days you woke up?

      And for transparency, I am triple vaccinated (maybe more, I lost count), have had 0 covid infections as far as I know, masked for a long time while it seemed to make sense.

      • OutOfHere 3 hours ago
        Your comment is completely unfair. You are entirely dismissive of those who are not ignorant of long Covid and of those who have experienced the hell that Covid could be.

        And you'd rather be dead? Careful what you wish for.

        • timcobb 3 hours ago
          I didn't wish for anything, I stated my calculus, and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

          Not sure what's unfair about my comment, let alone completely.

          • OutOfHere 3 hours ago
            Your calculus doesn't relate to anyone else. It is like a billionaire saying that poverty doesn't exist.
      • swed420 3 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • timcobb 3 hours ago
          Why are you insulting the people you're seemingly trying to convince of something? What's going on there? What are you doing here?
          • swed420 2 hours ago
            Those are facts, not insults. HN isn't known for sugar-coating facts. If they offend you, consider asking yourself why.
    • xyzsparetimexyz 4 hours ago
      Lmao
      • swed420 4 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • gruez 4 hours ago
          What are either of those links supposed to imply?
          • swed420 3 hours ago
            The levels that capital interests stooped to, and it worked. Nobody was given an alternative, nor the facts that would motivate searching for one.